*********** Selling Ordinary 2002 & 2005 Sovereigns as Proofs on eBay
We originally "Named & Shamed" this eBay member, but as he quickly admitted to an error, and sounded genuinely penitent, we have replaced our original page, but left this current edited page in place, partly as an alert for collectors, and partly in case we were right in the first place.
eBay seller ***********, United Kingdom, offered both 2002 and 2005 "bullion" sovereigns as rare proofs on eBay. The difference was obvious enough, even from the mediocre quality photographs.
While this could happen through accident or ignorance, in this case there was no excuse, in our opinion.

Business Seller
*********** is "Registered as a Business Seller", according to eBay. This has legal, moral, and ethical implications. He also operates an eBay "Shop" called ***********. eBay also shows him to be a "Top-Rated Seller"
If this is one of eBay's best, we shudder to think about the worst.

Forty of Each
In his listings, he states he has about 40 of each of these coins. He does state "coin only", but omits to elaborate that these coins would normally come in a capsule, with original box and certificate. There is no explanation about why these are absent. While it is fairly common to come across proof sovereigns without certificates, probably because the owners have mislaid them, it is less common to find them without boxes, which are harder to lose; this does occur though, often because dealers have "split" three or four-coin proof sets; when sellers offer these, they usually explain why. *********** has omitted any explanation.
Forty of each would equate to two sheets each of the ordinary "bullion" version, which are often quite shiny, and which crop up quite regularly as many collectors and small investors bought complete sheets of 20, or half sheets of 10.
Forty loose proofs would be very unusual to encounter. On the infrequent occasions that we have bought quantities, sometimes 50 pieces, of "undressed" proofs, they still arrive in their capsules.
If *********** has any experience or intelligence, he should seriously have questioned his own judgement about these being proofs. At worst, he could have got a second opinion.

Question & Answer
***********'s offers came to our attention because as established expert dealers, we were asked to give a second opinion on the coins from the photographs in the listings. We wee also informed that he had replied to questions about them reassuring the questioner that they coin were indeed proofs, and that it was the questioner who was confused.
At this stage, if *********** was either honest or intelligent, he could and should have double checked.

Fraudster?
We believe this constitutes clear evidence that *********** is not to be trusted as an expert and knowledgeable dealer. We would go as far as to opine that he is probably a fraudster. More may become clear depending on his further actions and reactions. It is possible that he may claim a lack of experience, knowledge, or expertise; and it may be that we have to accept his word if this turns out to be the case, however this defence would hardly be a glowing testimonial.

Proof v. Uncirculated - The Difference
Even if *********** knew nothing, he could have read our page, and been better informed.

Seller ID	Item Number	Date	Description	Price
***********		28th Apr 2010	2002 RARE PROOF QUEEN ELIZABETH II GOLD FULL SOVEREIGN	£220
***********		28th Apr 2010	2005 RARE PROOF QUEEN ELIZABETH II GOLD FULL SOVEREIGN	£220

High eBay Feedback is No Guarantee of Integrity or Honesty
When we wrote this page, this eBay member's feedback was 851; with 99.8% positive according to eBay.

Sample Listing 1

2005 RARE PROOF QUEEN ELIZABETH II GOLD FULL SOVEREIGN
2002 GOLD PROOF FULL SOVEREIGN.
You are invited to bid for a 2005 Gold Proof Full sovereign.
Coin only.
Photograph is an example of the condition you will receive. I have approximately 40 of these coins.
Feel free to contact me directly should you have any questions on (Removed).
Please check out my other items!
Business Seller Information
GOLD STOP
Contact Details
***********
(Removed)

Sample Listing 2

2002 RARE PROOF QUEEN ELIZABETH II GOLD FULL SOVEREIGN
2002 GOLD PROOF FULL SOVEREIGN.
You are invited to bid for a 2002 Gold Proof Full sovereign.
Coin only.
Photograph is an example of the condition you will receive. I have approximately 40 of these coins.
Feel free to contact me directly should you have any questions on .
Please check out my other items!
Business Seller Information
GOLD STOP
Contact Details
***********
(Removed)

Q&A

"They look like bullion to me but he is adamant that they are proofs"...
One of his replies:
"When the coins have been handled,or in my case removed form (sic) the capsules and stored in bags of 100 due to the quantity purchased.. (sic) You confuse the stiking (sic) of a proof coin with condition, which are different"

Price
The seller was asking a starting price of �220 for his coins, which is not a stupid price for ordinary uncirculated "bullion" coins. As this was an auction, we guess he would be hoping for some competitive bidding.
He also had listed a 1997 proof sovereign in capsule only at �329.95; and another (1997) complete at �389.95; as these three dates are roughly equivalent, it look as though he was expecting �100 each more for a capsule.

More Feedback

You are correct. The coins pictured are indeed bullion coins. I have made a mistake with my pictures and in my arrogance I dismissed you and I humbly apologise for antangonising (sic) you. I have removed the listings from eBay and intend to relist with the correct pictures at the weekend. I have learnt two valuable lessons at a significant cost to my reputation 1) Dont (sic) be so quick to dismiss a buyers (sic) comments and 2) double check the listings. I hope that you will accept my apology and overlook this offence. Regards ***********

Genuine Error?
We all make mistakes.
As our informant pointed out "Maybe this is genuine enough and sufficiently humbling to remove him from your rogues' gallery."
...and...
"I have not seen him err before, so I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Quite the best apology I have ever had from an eBayer."

eBay Guilty of Negligence or Complicity?
We will not be reporting this example to eBay, as we do not consider it part of our responsibility to police eBay free of charge on their behalf. If buyers wish to take the risk of buying from the world's leading stolen goods market, then they should accept their own risks. If eBay want expert input, they should be prepared to pay for it.
We will leave it to others to report this seller.

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